Yesterday the mob met (missing Nate L and S and Kyle)
And our topic was about Capital Punishment, is it right or wrong.
Before I had never made up my mind, but now I have.
And I believe that Capital Punishment is wrong.
I believe that if God wants you dead then your going to die.
Now some people argue that God can use people to kill people.
And heres my take on that, How do you know? People are full of sin and can’t that affect their judgment? Why would God want someone to kill someone else? From what I have seen is Jesus is ALL about forgiveness. Can you really kill someone and forgive them too?
For example in the old testament God opened up the ground to kill people, the Holy Spirit whacked some couple who lied about money.
You can’t hide from God. I’m proof of that.
Even God didn’t kill Cain…
So heres my quick take on it.
What right do we (as sinful humans) to send people to hell forever and ever? Because isn’t that what your doing when your killing an unsaved person?
I plan on posting a part II later tonight, with my notes and verses that back me up.
(By the way the MOB was split on this Adam and Drew for and Jw and I against.)
10 comments:
So you are telling me you are comfortable with a blanket statement of no death penalty??? Under ANY circumstance?
to put it bluntly yes.
and here is some of my reasoning (at least biblical reasoning)
13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so [e] ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.
Living with shame can/should be a whole lot worse then "death".
didn't we beat this topic to death on Brads blog months ago?
BTW, the Cain thing is a weak passage to argue against cap punishment, especially when later on in the OT you have countless crimes where death is prescribed
I must ask, what about killing enemy combatants in a time of war - which is damning them to hell if they're not saved. Your logic thus far would have to include not killing in a war situation. Are you ready to take that stand? How about using lethal force when someone is threatening someone you love? Would you take that stand as well? If you don't, then you have to conclude that there are in fact some occasions where taking a life is the right and necessary thing to do.
I've said it before on Brads blog, there is a time to kill, it even says so in Ecclesiastes, and there are no teachings in the Bible where capital punishment is condemned. BTW, "do not kill" in the 10 commandments is referring to individuals, not to a state controlled criminal justice systm.
This whole life in jail versus being executed is another display of how this nation blows so much of our wealth on unworthy and unnecessary things. I bet this discussion doesn't even happen outside the rich, modern, western world.
Go to the 3rd world and ask them if they would like to pay to keep someone alive in jail for the rest of their lives when it means starvation for those who have not committed any crimes.
If you cant guess, my position is this - string 'em up. Use the money that would have gone to their food and cable TV, cigarettes and porn, and spend it on teachers, literacy programs, job training, cleaning up "bad neighborhoods." In short, spend it on prevention.
I wont even go into how beneficial prison is in regards to preventing or deterring crime.
I love you Jeremy. I could not have said it better.
But what if it was one of your family members being punished by capital punishment? What if you knew, for a fact, they were innocent and there was nothing you could do for them? What if you knew they were guilty? What if it was a stranger? What if it was you? There are so many circumstances that could come up and you might have a different answer for each, but I agree with AJ that death is a terrible sentence and an eternity of pain for the unsaved. I think it is important to point out that God is forgiving:
(Psalm 103:8-10)
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.
(Luke 15:3-7)
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
(Acts 10:43)
43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
We are supposed to be like God, forgiving and compassionate with unconditional love for all people (1 Peter 3:8-9 (8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.) and Psalm 86:5 (5You are forgiving and good, O Lord, abounding in love to all who call to you.)).
1 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.
Ecclesiastes 3:3 does indeed say there is a time to kill and Ecclesiastes 3:8 indeed says there is a time for war, but just because it says that, it doesn't mean capital punishment is 'a time to kill'. And war...there is a constant war all around us every day and at this moment that is what I am more aimed at working on...
Just a thought that I havent seen come up in this discussion or past. After doing some research on the internet you see that every death row inmate is giving multiple chances to meet with a chaplain, priest or whatever religious leader they would like.
I dont know if that really negates AJ,sarah and those other peoples arguments but they are giving the chance to meet the Lord.
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
i cont care to play the "what if" game, and i dont care to confuse Gods grace to sinners with a weak stance against crime.
actions have consequences. Some of them are eternal consequences.
If i drink and drive, and get into a collision, i may die (others may die too). That is a bad decision with eternal consequence - not only for me, but the innocents i may take with me.
If you do certain deeds to other people, and you go through our "due process" and are sentenced to die, then i see your death as a direct consequence of your actions. Your eternal soul is your responsibility. And like Brad said, in America you have the gospel readily available for your acceptance or rejection. I dont see those who are executed in America's criminal justice system as eternal victims of anything but their own choices.
ANd the 1Cor verse quoted is NOT in regards to a government casting judgment on a criminal, but on Christians judging the sinful behavior of those who do not believe. In that case, we have no place holding unbelievers to our convictions because they do not believe what we believe. God will deal with them as the scripture says. Our discussion is on the state judging and punishing criminals, which absolutely MUST MUST MUST take place for basic civilization to exist.
1. I wrote this post because this was the current issue going in my life right now.
2. I plan on tomorrow to post my reasoning and verses that I believe back me up.
3. I know that this is a hot issue, but really what isn't a hot issue?
4. I will try to address the issues raised here in the comments, but i really wish the MOB would jump in.
till then peace out.
AJ, i think this link to Brads blog has a lot of good arguments both for and against. Like i said, we beat this to death back in December.
Here: http://b-handsome.blogspot.com/2007/12/seriously-banning-death-penalty.html
Sorry, too lazy to html
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