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Alright, What Can I Do Today To Help Save the World?
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23 comments:
Not to get too lost between several posts and comments, but I will carry the conversation over here.
Again, I think it's a great message, but how does it jive with the Bible?
Is this world not given over to Satan? Are people not inherently evil? Can humans just by sheer force of effort and will overcome sin or do they require Christ to achieve perfection? If this world can be redeemed by everyone carrying and loving, what is the purpose of Christ, his message, and his sacrifice?
Ultimately I think we should work to better our world, but I also believe that no matter what I personally do, nothing permanent will come of it because everything I do, no matter how good, is tainted by my sin nature. NOTHING I can do is perfect, only Christ can bring perfection through me. Hence until Christ's return I do not believe a "better world" can be achieved.
Again, I am not saying don't try and improve our world, Christ implores us and commands us to take care of the world and those that live within it, but it is under the command that we are to care for them by giving them the message of hope and salvation of Christ and that this world CAN NOT be saved without him.
Forgot to click the "email comments" button, so this post is just so I can get emailed follow up comments :p
again see my last comment. I not saying that I can go on a on man crusded and win against sin, it comes down to the indivdual person to make the choice of sinning or not. But You CAN help them make the right choice. So no we can't be perfect but we can try to be better darn close.
One more thing, we should all hope for a better world, and try to work for one. Theres nothing wrong with that, I mean come on with out hope we got nothing.
But what does helping someone make the right choice accomplish?
Listen, morally I am opposed to drug use, prostitution, gay marriage, gambling, and a host of other items we as Christians identify as "morally wrong."
But what good does it do me to "force" or "help" or any other way you want to phrase it, individuals in to making the right choice? If that choice is made outside of Christ... it doesn't matter.
I guess what I am trying to say is that too many Christians focus their efforts on "making the world a better place" which I think is actually wrong and AGAINST scripture. We CAN'T make the world a better place, it belongs to Satan and any efforts we do to improve the world are futile.
What we CAN do is spread the message and love of Christ. If people live a morally "good" life, but do so outside of Christ, then everything they have done is for nothing, because ultimately they end up in the same place.
We need to remember that our time on Earth is an insignificant dot compared with eternity, ALL of our actions should be focused and carried out with the concept of eternity in our minds, not our temporal existence here.
Even if we make the world a better place, if it is absent Christ than any gains we have made were for nothing.
I just to say that I'm not talking about converting gays, or stuff like that, I think that a issue that needs to focus on is things like poverty, aids, war, and the like. Its what we should do as humans to help other humans, you know you we should want to help others, and Christ did heal a lot of people, physically, mentaly, spiritually. Christians have enough people on the spiritual side of it but what about the physically and mentally hurting people. God=love/grace/compassion and we should try to be like God and I feel like trying to make the world a safer, better place is something that we are called upon as christians and Humans.
But AJ, your missing the point. What if I feed the hungy, help the hurting, etc, but I do it outside the confines of Christ... what have I accomplished?
I eased there pain for a brief moment in time, but in the grand scheme of eternity they are still condemned to hell... sorry but in the large scale of things fixing issues like poverty, aids, war accomplished NOTHING. If those things are done outside of Christ in the larger picture it means nothing.
That is my point, it's the REASONING behind your motivation. Trying to end wars, poverty, aids, etc are all good - IF YOU ARE DOING IT TO SPREAD THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST. If you are doing it just because doing those things is "good" then ultimately everything you do is pointless... because anyone you "help" will still burn in hell for eternity.
I'm not talking about individuals I'm talking about the masses. Which to me is a big differences
But that is completely backwards! Christ didn't call us to love "people groups" but to love "individuals."
Okay, so instead of feeding 1 person, you are feeding 1,000... thats STILL 1,000 people that have missed the message of Christ and are condemned to hell. Whether 1, 1000, or 1 million... we need to spread the message and love of Christ as a means of SALVATION, not as a means of "improving quality of life."
and I'm saying that salvation is/can be a BY-product of what I would love to do. Don't get me wrong I think that leading people to chirst is important, but I also think helping the unlucky, homeless, etc...Is also important and I think that the humilty that it teaches is really what christianity is about...have the grace/love/compassion/want to help people. Which is really what Jesus did.
And that is my vision, somebody who leads people to Christ in a totally non-religious way, were they don't feel threatened and they experience what Gods love is about. I see that as a lot more effective then cramming the Bible down their throats.
two points for AJ on those last two comments.
that's the money shot.
i'd vote for him for mayor.
Thanks mr.Holzgrove :)
I am sorry but any plan that has salvation as a "by product" not the ultimate goal is not one I can endorse or encourage someone to partake in.
When my head is on fire and you offer me a cookie, sure a cookie is always nice, but I would much rather you put the damn flames out.
But what if you don’t know that your head is on fire, and the only way I have a chance to put out the flames is by offering you a cookie, then while you eating your cookie I can have a chance to put out the flames, that you don’t know about.
That might be a good way of describing what I feel about the world, but I will have to think more.
as always I find myself searching for the happy median.
When I hear things like helping, ministering, playing, in a non-religious way, I hear compramise. It sounds like b.s. Take for example the music industry. If a qoute "christian" band plays music for the world, who are they really playing for? As soon as God is out of the equation, he really is out of the equation. Those previous statements might have been confusing but the point is, you are compromising when you take god out of the picture, and compromise is not something I have found in the Bible (if I'm wrong please let me know).
But on AJ's side I qoute Matthew 25:31-46. I'm sure you have heard it.
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Ryan I would love for you to show me where in scripture it says that making the world a better place is against scripture. I think that being a light by helping others is something we are called to do. I think that it is a way to show God's love . And I'm not 100 % sure of this point but (in reference to the above passage) isn't a sin to NOT help others?
on aj's points. My mom tells me that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because you think you're doing the right thing doesn't mean you are. I reference Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
I just think you're on shaky ground when you do things in a non-religious way.
A.J.
I believe that all good things come from Christ. He is not the author of confusion. God will use you as HE sees fit, whether that is logical from mans perspective or not is regardless of the point. If He moves you to reach someone by handing them a warm meal, or clothing their child that they are unable to purchase a jacket for...you have shared Gods unconditional love without ever mentioning His name...but they will have seen Him in your eyes and service. Unexpected compassion like that is beautiful when it comes from the heart. God reached people from pure, simple, uncomplicated LOVE!!!He did not ask for anything in return...we would never be able to repay Him had He ever asked. It was never about His gain...His Love and Focus has ALWAYS been on us. This world would be a better place if more people treated others how Christ did and continues to do. We are blessed to have the peace of knowing who we will spend eternity with. Some have not been so blessed as to grow in strong Christian family with generations of heritage as we have in ours. I'm proud of you for taking a stand and having a part in the lives of others, and showing them Christs love. I believe in the power of prayer. If you ask Him, God will lead you where He has intended you to go since before time. If it is His will that you reach a multitude...who can stand against you? Or maybe, His will is for you not to be the person at the microphone on stage in a stadium speaking among thousands. Maybe it is God's will that the one person you hand a meal to or warm jacket to goes on to be the next Max Lucado or Billy Graham who is able to speak to millions. Does that make you less of a part in how many people will be touched as a result of that one meal, jacket, or kind word? It is a beautiful thing to share the message of salvation with someone...whether it be a single person or a stadium full of people. God will lead you in HIS timing,...the only timing that truly matters. Scripture "darts" can be thrown back and forth and mis-construed beyond Christs true intention of the message. I believe we can take part in making the world a better place when we take up our cross and follow Him in His will for us. Trust your Lord and Maker,...He will never lead you astray. In His will is our peace (whether it be a single person or the world).
To dorf, welcome
To Nate and Ryan,
Lets toss out a metaphor, lets say that you lost your job and you have a family to feed but you have nothing to feed them. But someone comes up to you and says that you can have 100 dollars now, or you can have a million in 20,30,40,50,or 60 years. What would you take? I would always take the 100 right now. Your all Christian right? But would you be if you had to worry about death, starvation and all the stuff that comes with being a third world country? or would you being trying to help your family and yourself survive the day?
Once people dont have to worry about starvation, war, homelesses then the can and will be more will to hear about God.
AJ I couldn't disagree more.
What happened every time the Isrealites had what they needed? They compromised, they fell into ruin. What happened every time they were in ruin? They turned to God. What happens when I get into a great deal of trouble, I call on God. What happens when every thing is going smoothly, I forget about God. It's wrong but it happens anyway.
I don't believe that Maslow's Heirachy of Human Needs is the end all beat all, if that is indeed where you base your argument.
burn.
Just to clarify, I didn't say that doing good things was against scripture, what I was saying is that the idea that we as HUMANS can improve the earth is against scripture. The world is imperfect and has been given over to Satan, we are part of this world and outside of Christ we are imperfect and tainted with sin, hence everything we do is tainted with sin.
What I was saying is that the ONLY way the earth can be improved is via Christ, not through any actions we take. I agree that we need to take of the hungry and the destitute, but we need to do it with the end goal of glorifying Christ.
"What I was saying is that the ONLY way the earth can be improved is via Christ, not through any actions we take. I agree that we need to take of the hungry and the destitute, but we need to do it with the end goal of glorifying Christ."
Isn't helping people like the hungry and the destitute improving the earth?
I think what ryan is getting at is your motives. Why are you helping others? is it because you love God? is it because you what to be more than what you are right now? or do you want to give yourself a nice warm and fuzzy feeling on the inside? The end goal (which Ryan has been mentioning) should be to glorify God just as it should always be.
Ryan I don't disagree with your last comment (infact i agree) but I would like to read/know the Bible versus where it says that the only way to improve the earth is through Christ.
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