Ok so here is part II, (you can read part one here, in fact I encourage it because I think it would help you guys.)
In the last part of part 1 I stated that I feel like the Man is holding me down, I start off of that...
I look at world and I can vision change, I can see a world that doesn't have a big issue with crime, Justice is served, politicians are doing their best for their country and not for themselves. And I don't see that now. So being me, I want to change it, I want to help, I want to be able to do something. And I feel like I can't. I feel like that the Man is holding me down. Who is the Man? the man is the person who looks down on me because I'm young, The man is the person who doesn't think I have good ideas because I'm a teenager, The Man is the person who doesn't care what I think. The Man is holding me down. And sometimes that Man is a Woman too. The Man can be found at school, church, the mall, home, work, wal-mart, the auto dealer, really anywhere you (I) go. The Man is usually not your closest friend. But he is always there hovering over my shoulder, telling me my ideas are stupid, they can't work, blah, blah, blah.
But, I know, I know, that's no excuse, I should not worry about it but you know how hard that is?
So what is the Man holding me down with? I will just name the big ones,
Your just a highschooler,
You don't have a college degree
Your not a adult
You not really needed
You don't know what your talking about
You don't know what life is like
I just get sick of being disencouraged (i think thats a word), you know? part III later.
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Just because I like to poke people's brain and make them think, I pose to you this question:
In your world that you picture where people are working for good, crime is down, politicians work for betterment, etc... How does this jive with your Christian beliefs, specifically that man is a sinful creature that is inherently evil?
While I like to picture and envision a perfect world where everyone is working for the betterment of mankind, don't we have to say that can only happen AFTER Christ returns? Just posing a thought for you to chew on.
Are you asking me if what I picture is possible?
possible or not, i believe that this idea, this vison, is one worth fighting for.
p.s. that theres a lot hyperlinks to one picture
Did you go to all the hyperlinks? Maybe theres a special one.
But to you ryan, I believe that a world where everyone is working for the good, crime is down etc... IS possible. People said that blacks would never be equal to whites, people said that flying was impossible, people said that women would never vote, people said that we were never going to able to go to the moon. But we have done all of these things, why? Because someone had believed, someone had the courage to believe in something that NO one thought was possible. so I DO think its possible. (watch the video on my next post and I think it would help my thinking especially the quote at the end)
My comment was meant to provoke you to synchronize your world view with your Christian beliefs. Often people hold one belief and then hold a different world view...
I am just saying how do you balance the Christian belief that the world is inherently evil, the concept of entropy where everything decays, and the promise of a "new world" that is perfect ONLY through Christ with the world view that says "If someone believes hard enough, tries hard enough, and puts in enough effort they can make the world a better place."
I am not saying it is wrong to TRY and improve the world, I am just asking whether or not you believe it is possible to ever achieve a better world, and if you do believe it is possible, how do you balance that with scripture?
Just provoking you to think is all... I await your reply :D
I do believe that you can improve the world. I think you have to CHANGE the people so your not improve anything your changing. Think of it this way, you have a set of legos and you build one thing, after a while you tear it down and change it, are you changing the legos? No your just reshaping them into something better (or worse). I will back it with scripture later, but you also have to back up your half, with it too.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Titus 2:12 - teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age
Implying that the world is ungodly and full of sin, and is a call for Christians to live righteously in the world (but not of the world).
Matthew 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
John 8:23 And He (Christ) said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
All scripture identifying Christ as perfect and that this state of perfection is ONLY attainable by him, because he is not of the world. This means that anything of the world is by default tainted and CAN NOT achieve perfection or goodness outside of Christ.
John 5:19 the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Luke 4:5-7 And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him (Jesus), “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. “Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.”
In this conversation between Christ and Satan we see that Satan has been given rule over this earth.
And finally a direct address to this very topic of loving the world and trying to bring about a "better world" outside of Christ:
1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world -- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -- is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Want more scripture?
Titus 2:12 - teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
This verse seems to me like it supports my agruement. I read it saying we should do all that we can.
1 John 2:15-17, on this verse on of the commands of GOD was to take CARE of this world.
Let me get some verses tonight, or at lunch at work.
AJ, I agree that we are called to love and care for the world, it is your presupposition on what our reason for doing it is that I am calling in to question.
If we set out to "improve the world" then all of our actions are for naught. If we set out to "spread the gospel of Christ" then we may have very SIMILAR actions, but our end goal is VASTLY different.
What I am saying is, lets not focus on "improving the world"... I believe that is a mistake too many Christians make today. We are not called to improve the world, we are called to spread the message of Christ.
Thats all I am trying to say, I am not saying that being philanthropic or assisting with charity, or feeding the homeless or ANYTHING like that is BAD, I am saying that if our motivation for such actions is to "improve the world" then we are wasting our time... that is an impossible goal that CAN NOT be achieved. BUT, if our goal is to spread the message and love of Christ to as many people as possible, that is a VERY attainable and worthwhile goal.
I am not calling in to question your actions, I think actions to better our fellow man is great. I am calling in to question the motivation. If the end result of improving the world is also the motivation, that is WRONG. If the end result is spreading the message of Christ, and in the PROCESS we improve the world, then that is scripturally sound and right.
I think we should stick to one post cause I'm getting lost. So if you want to bring that point up stick it on Part III. Sound good?
While I do beleive that man has an evil nature, i agree with my brother. We are called to care and love and nurture the world and its inhabitants. I beleive loving and caring and nurturing all mean you want whats best for them/it. Thus, you do all you can to make the world a better place to reside. I believe it is possible to change the world.
Philippians 4:13 - I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
I beleive this. I beleive that if Amos can change God's mind [amos 7], then surely we can change the world.
the world can be changed with GOD's help.
We have been talking somewhat about this in bible study. We have come to the conclusion that by loving people [no matter to what extent] you can change the world.
Make sense?
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